Another Religious Post or: Hell, Why Not?

this_is_my_way_of_islam_by_saurukent-d5q81uaAs I get older I find it harder and harder to not be bigoted or prejudiced towards beliefs that I disagree with. I like to think of myself as an idealist rather than a racist or sexist because I find myself judging people on their ideas rather than their race or gender. I still judge people on how they look (as I think we all do to some degree) just not for something that they were born with or had no control over. For instance, I would judge an adult wearing a Hijab for the same reason I would judge someone for wearing Hasidic clothing for they are both dress-choices generally encouraged by beliefs and therefore give some pretty clear clues to what they believe. From nerd and feminist shirts to hip-hop hoodies, it is easy to see how people’s clothing correspond with their ideas and ideals. So to a point, because what people wear can hint at what people believe, I think we should judge people on what they look like and I’d expect the rest of the world to do the same for me.


Keeping this in mind, it’s only logical to think that people wearing these clothes are silly if you believe that the ideas leading those people to wearing them are silly. And this is the heart of the matter. These ideas, when acted upon through any means, including fashion, can lead to an idealist like me diving head first into the tricky labyrinth that is religious bigotry. Key words that come to mind are Anti-semitism, Islamaphobia and the hilariously named ‘War on Christmas’. Each of these are red herrings, using some emotion or another through their social or historical connotations to distract from the main issue that there are benefits to being critical of religion. Mainly that, besides war and conquering, it is the key trigger of religious reformation throughout history, and, if you haven’t noticed, some specific extremist sects in particular are REALLY in need of this.

Let’s break down some of these terms. Anti-semetism, basically being against ‘policy or predisposition favorable to Jews’. Considering I don’t think religion should have anything to do with policy and try to have as little religious predispositions as possible, I might be considered one of these. But because of the historical connotations, having this rational belief could easily lead you to being labeled a Nazi, or worst, an Egyptian (What? They did it first). Islamaphobia must be the most used oxymoron I’ve ever heard. Firstly, a phobia is an ‘irrational’ belief and, if you’ve read the Quran, Islam is one scary fucking religion and those who follow it to the word are terrifying as well. A more accurate denunciation would be Muslimaphobia because not all Muslims believe in everything to do with Islam, I could actually get behind that. Lastly, in the War on tumblr_nhct56syQT1u6q0sio6_500Christmas all I can say is you better stop fat shaming Santa Claus atheists! Delivering all those presents isn’t workout enough for you?

There’s a reason why sayings like ‘holier than thou’ have gained negative connotations. Beliefs pulled from abstract verses that can be analysed metaphorically to the point that they lose all meaning is about as useful as gaining your beliefs from abstract art painted by some schizophrenic that hears voices in his head, which ironically, most of the people who believe these things freely admit to. However, to act on these beliefs contrary to the world around you is comparable to undressing and painting a sign on your naked body saying that you affiliate yourself with such a wide group of people that other idiots might automatically associate you with the worst of the bunch. Who knows maybe they to will act on these beliefs as well and the two sides of idiocy will clash, thus making your idiocy public to idealists like me that will laugh at you because your actions have clearly portrayed both of your beliefs to be a cause of violence.

4a493bff8a396In the end my point is this, the majority of people are lazy and are going to judge you on what little information they can pick up in the short amount of time that they may encounter you. And whether it is what you wear or what you say, if you have a belief or ideals that are religious, there’s a good chance that someone is going to disagree with you, AND THAT’S FINE! However, a small portion of those people will act on those disagreements in ways that I would also call idiotic, and that’s when you need to start asking yourself why. Because they are deviant? Yes, but also because they are reacting to you associating yourself to what they consider a deviant religion through your clothing or words. This goes for associating all Catholic priests with pedophiles, or all Muslims with terrorists, or all Aztecs with human sacrifices… though admittedly that was a long time ago, I think we can let that one go, Aztecs. Just no more human sacrifices, okay?

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9 Responses to Another Religious Post or: Hell, Why Not?

  1. hlmwilki says:

    Just copy and paste the verses that you don’t know the reference of into google and you will find that they are actually Bible verses. So it annoys me that you miscontrued them and more imprtantly added (Allah) in them, making out these are from the Quran. That’s just plain wrong and ignorant. Anyway am working on my magnum opus response now, haha.
    But now that I know the Bible has those verses, I’m just shocked, but it also adds credibility to my view that the Bible has been manufactured and altered several times in history. So when they wanted the peasants and criminals to do crusades just quote these verses and make everything alright

  2. hlmwilki says:

    You dissing religion bro? 😉 hahaha
    You are absolutely correct that the way we carry ourselves like the way we dress, what music we listen, what form of entertainment we are into and so on do tell a great deal of what we believe in and what we think about. The inner manifests in the outer.
    I’m just concerned that you found Islam to be scary, and from reading the Quran no less. Which verses did you come across? 🙂 Though I have a feeling I know which ones you are referring to.

    • Lazarinth says:

      These come from a lot of different sources so some sight repeat but feel free and cut the ones you don’t feel are legitimate for I couldn’t remember places where I found the my list of them. In the historical context that some these were written, they are pretty scarey:

      Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.
      Qu’ran, Sura ix, 5-6
      Those who believe fight in the cause of God.
      Qu’ran, Sura iv, 76
      Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God’s.
      Qu’ran, Sura viii, 39-42
      Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God’s path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.
      Qu’ran, Sura iv, 74
      Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves.
      Qu’ran, Sura ii, 223
      When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.
      Qu’ran, Sura xlvii.4
      Qu’ran 9:5 Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.
      Qu’ran 9:6 Those who submit and convert to Islam will be treated well. (Those who don’t submit will be killed. See previous verse.)
      Qu’ran 9:7-9 Don’t make treaties with non-Muslims. They are all evildoers and should not be trusted.
      Qu’ran 9:11 Treat converts to Islam well, but kill those who refuse to convert (see 9:5).
      Qu’ran 9:12-14 Fight the disbelievers! Allah is on your side; he will give you victory.
      Qu’ran 9:23 Don’t make friends with your disbelieving family members. Those who do so are wrong-doers.
      Qu’ran 9:29 Fight against Christians and Jews “until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.”
      Qu’ran 9:33 The “Religion of Truth” (Islam) must prevail, by force if necessary, over all other religions.
      Qu’ran 9:41 Fight for Allah with your wealth and whatever weapons are available to you.
      Qu’ran 9:42 Those who refuse to fight for Allah (claiming they are unable) are liars who have destroyed their souls.
      Qu’ran 9:73 Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.
      Qu’ran 9:81-83 Those who refuse to give their wealth and lives to Allah will face the fire of hell.
      Qu’ran 9:85 Those who refuse to fight for Allah will be treated (along with their children) as unbelievers.
      Qu’ran 9:111 Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed. Allah will reward them for it.
      Qu’ran 9:123 Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you.
      Quran (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”
      There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not. However, there are also two worrisome pieces to this verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of “persecution” (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until “religion is for Allah.” The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.
      Quran (2:244) – “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.”
      Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding caravans with this verse.
      Quran (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”
      Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”. This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be ‘joining companions to Allah’).
      Quran (4:74) – “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.” The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today’s suicide bombers.
      Quran (4:76) – “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…”
      Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”
      Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-” This passage criticizes “peaceful” Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah’s eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that “Jihad” doesn’t mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man’s protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).
      Quran (4:104) – “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…” Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?
      Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”
      Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them” No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
      Quran (8:15) – “O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey’s end.”
      Quran (8:39) – “And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah” From the historical context we know that the “persecution” spoken of here was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow Muhammad to enter their city and perform the Haj. Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as an armed group, since Muhammad declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad’s intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until “religion is only for Allah.” According to Ibn Ishaq (324), Muhammad justified the violence further by explaining that “Allah must have no rivals.”
      Quran (8:57) – “If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.”
      Quran (8:59-60) – “And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah’s Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy.”
      Quran (8:65) – “O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight…”
      Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.” According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.
      Quran (9:14) – “Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace…”
      Quran (9:20) – “Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah’s way are of much greater worth in Allah’s sight. These are they who are triumphant.” The “striving” spoken of here is Jihad.
      Quran (9:29) – “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” “People of the Book” refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final “revelations” from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad’s companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.
      Quran (9:30) – “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”
      Quran (9:38-39) – “O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place.” This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.
      Quran (9:41) – “Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew.” See also the verse that follows (9:42) – “If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them” This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).
      Quran (9:73) – “O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.” Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today’s devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.
      Quran (9:88) – “But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.”
      Quran (9:111) – “Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.”
      Quran (9:123) – “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”
      Quran (18:65-81) – This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story, which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source, tells of Moses encountering a man with “special knowledge” who does things which don’t seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would “grieve” his parents by “disobedience and ingratitude.” He was killed so that Allah could provide them a ‘better’ son.
      Quran (21:44) – “We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?”
      Quran (25:52) – “Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness…” “Strive against” is Jihad – obviously not in the personal context. It’s also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.
      Quran (33:60-62) – “If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter.” This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered “merciless” and “horrible murder” in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to “fight in the way of Allah” (3:167) and hence don’t act as Muslims should), those with “diseased hearts” (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and “alarmists” or “agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad’s biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today’s terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah’s eternal word to Muslim generations.
      Quran (47:3-4) – “Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,” Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn’t do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. “But if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.”
      Quran (47:35) – “Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: “have the upper hand”) for Allah is with you,” This very important verse asserts that j Religion of Peace is not to grant peace to the broader society until Islamic rule has been established.
      Quran (48:17) – “There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom.” Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means ‘spiritual struggle.’ Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?
      Quran (48:29) – “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves” Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.
      Quran (61:4) – “Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way” Religion of Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9): “He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist.”
      Quran (61:10-12) – “O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity.” This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.
      Quran (66:9) – “O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey’s end.” The root word of “Jihad” is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include “hypocrites” – those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

      (Incorrect section removed)

      ALLAH (swt) say in his Holy Book Of Qura’an (وقدمنا إلى ما عملوا من عمل فجعلناه هباء منثورا)
      And… I can’t remember is the lesson about taqiyya was in it but that’s one scarey practice as well.

      • hlmwilki says:

        I will reply in kind since you did all that work, it’s only fair I show the proper meaning and understanding of those verses and more importantly the proper translation because some of the verses you quoted are wrongly translated. If we are going to have a proper discussion it would be nice that you use as accurate a translation as possible.
        But I wanted to make a couple quick points: the verses you quote but don’t know the reference of at the bottom of your comment are actually all from the Bible. When I read them I was actually shocked because I know for a fact the Quran doesn’t condone killing of women and infants (in any circumstance).
        And I want to clarify there are two forms of Jihad, one is known as the smaller Jihad and that is the physical fighting and war. The other jihad is the spiritual one and that is concerned with how you live your life in a spiritual and moral way, and is more difficult than war. Just as an aside, I want to make the point that today we find muslims countries fighting each other and muslim groups (like ISIS) waging war on muslims, and we find the Syrans running away and letting ISIS take over their country. This is what the Quran warned us about, that the muslims should be good to each other, and that if they fight then they have to fight with full vigour and determination and not let the bad guys, so to speak, win.
        I will be writing a nice long comment as a present for you 😉
        Just in the future study the best translations you can find (I recommend Yusuf Ali translations) and also study the historical context and study the whole subject. There are over 6000 verses in the Quran and all of the verses of a particular subject give you the full picture. For example you quoted the verse that says our wives are a tilth for us. If that was the only verses which taught us about marriage and how to conduct ourselves I would be very worried but there other verses which further elaborate the role of the wife and husband to each other and within the family. I will go into this in more detail in my next comment.
        I will say I’m impressed with your reply overall (just be more academic about is my only concern and don’t use badly translated verses like “Qu’ran 9:7-9 Don’t make treaties with non-Muslims. They are all evildoers and should not be trusted.” This is misleading in both the linguistic sense (shame on you 🙂 ) and the actual message of the verses. Also it doesn’t give credibility to your case when you quote verses badly.)

    • Lazarinth says:

      I don’t read Arabic so all of those translations are from secondary sources. It makes sense that I couldn’t find the Christian quotes. Could you give me a link or send me the translated copy you use if you have a digital copy you could share. Its time to do some ctrl-f-ing. Also don’t get me wrong, I think the bible is a scarey book as well.

    • Lazarinth says:

      That’s perfect, thank you. I’ve removed the quotes from the bible from the list because I found the site where the list came from and saw you were right. My mistake.

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