Webchat with Kai (Deluscar) & and Silvachief (The Geek Clinic) on the Muv-Luv Trilogy – Part 2

SPOILERS

Lazarinth’s Questions

Question 1
Were you annoyed that there weren’t any alternative heroine routes in Alternative or that many of the later characters died off so quickly?

[Kai]
I actually don’t really mind linear routes in visual novels as long as there is a good story to be told. This wasn’t even the first instance I came across a VN with a linear route. Additionally, with some VNs like Little Busters and G-Senjou no Maou, the “canon-ness” of their main routes are as good as any other linear routes. Also, by the time they introduced the “other world” in Unlimited, they are already going into a very specific plot direction. I don’t see how branching routes would’ve worked.

[Silvachief]
I don’t mind a lack of character routes. As Kai says, most visual novels have a “true” ending anyway that blows the other routes out of the water, so when there’s only one route it means that the story has been focused on that from the beginning, making everything fit together that much better. (The fact that Sumika was Best Girl anyway made a huge difference; I imagine anyone who liked the other characters would have felt quite shafted.) As for characters being introduced just to die…I felt their roles were important enough and their conclusions tasteful enough that I didn’t see it that way. Each of those had a purpose and each of them taught the reader, Takeru and the other squadmates something new. With the exception of a few characters, I felt the loss when they died and for the others the impact their death had on everyone else was the important thing. I will admit that some of their messages/deaths may have been a tad cliche, but I didn’t feel that was a negative thing.

[Lazarinth]
I guess saying I wanted more time with them showed that I liked their characters in the long run anyhow. Tell you what, if it had been Tama and Miki who had died earlier on in return for two of them… then maybe… It’s just the loli voices I generally can’t stand. It’s like chalk on chalkboard for me.

[Silvachief]
Just to be contrary, Tama was probably my favorite of the original characters after Sumika and Meiya.

Question 2
Were there any parts that you just thought ‘fuck it’ and clicked through because it was like reading an instruction manual?

[Kai]
I can understand how draggy it may seems to some people, in fact, sometimes I don’t believe I even get everything, lol. But you gotta admit Muv-Luv’s attention to detail is awesome. Incidentally, I tweeted a while ago that while Muv-luv is a great visual novel, it will do just as great as a video game. The briefing, while draggy in visual novel, would work well in a video game as a pre-briefing before playing each mission. And you know how for each operation, they had supply containers laid out around the area right? Those would work great as check points, save points as sort, with obviously options to buy/store equipments, weapons, parts, ammunitions, etc…

[Silvachief]
Dammit Kai, now you’ve got my hopes up for something amazing that will never ever happen T_T Back to the question: I found the depth of Muv-Luvs background information to be really very interesting. I was eager to learn more about the BETA and how they worked, so those briefing scenes went by in a flash.

[Lazarinth]
It’s weird to think that someone who loves big epic fantasy (me) is impatient when it comes to the finer details of visual novels.

Question 3
What did you think of the ending? (e.g. Climax, that scene, was it too much? Did it make it better or worse?)

[Kai]
I’m satisfied with the ending, very much so. The battle with the Beta may be far from finished, but Takeru’s personal battle with himself – his flaws, his views and finding a reason to fight and live for; it took 3 series (Extra, Unlimited, Alternative), but by the end of the series, he is a grown, matured man. Throughout all those three titles we had spent with him and empathizing with his suffering, it just makes the ending that much worthwhile. Also, remember how the Marimo was saying how even though Takeru is suffering now, with enough time passed, Takeru will be able to look back at all of these suffering and laughed it out. While he forgot most of these memories by the end of the series, he showed hints of remembering them, but instead of freaking out after remembering them, I think Takeru will be strong enough to do just exactly that – looking back, and laugh at all the suffering that he went through due to nostalgia. I see the whole story and the ending of MLA as character growth rather than plot resolution, as you can see, so I’m especially satisfied with that regard. There were some inconsistencies and mysterious remained, like how the battle with BETA barely concluded, how BETA’s views on human still haven’t change and how the “causality conductor” plot point was obviously rushed. But as a tale telling a personal and emotional story of one soldier fighting in an insane world, it is one of the best story I had ever read. That scene gets too dark and gloomy in my opinion, even for MLA’s standards. I had to take a break and read some light, cute yuri visual novels for a while to “ease” up my mind, lol. And like Yuuko herself said, it doesn’t quite make sense considering the BETA doesn’t even consider them life forms. Kinda weird how even the story itself mention that very contradiction, But characterizations-wise for Sumika, it makes sense. It gives a valid reason for all those almost animalistic anger and unstability of Sumika’s, making her characterizations that much raw and powerful. Still a very terrifying scene nonetheless though.

[Silvachief]
The ending was thrilling emotionally and physically (if that makes sense?). You have Meiya’s deception of Takeru as the rest of his squad dies off one by one, wondering minute by minute whether humanity will be able to succeed with this all-or-nothing attempt to prolong the inevitable. Meiya’s sacrifice and Takeru’s passionate effort to communicate with the foreign hive mind as the people he cares for are wiped out. Because of how extreme that final sequence was I didn’t worry about the lack of real conclusion until after I had finished the visual novel. I would have loved to know how that world had ended up (and as Kai said earlier, there are some visual novel stories that take place after Alternative) but I question how Age could have made any future scenes quite so potent. My one complaint about the ending is regarding Meiya’s last stand. It was cool and all, but did they have to show the exact same animation over and over again? It was jarring and detracted from the scene as a whole.I don’t think the BETA ended up seeing humanity as legitimate life. The issue was that the BETA themselves were carbon-based and had been created by silicon-based life forms, so the carbon-based humans, by their logic, must also be artificial life. Their experiments with humanity (as shocking as they seem to us) proved to them that the human mind could be easily manipulated with the right chemicals (much as we rewrite data on computers), which supported their reasoning. That scene, huh? I’m a little torn on that one. It’s horrifying, it’s demeaning and it crossing the border into some fringe fetish that many would be disgusted by. At the same time, it succeeded in making me very, very angry. It was terrifying and yet I couldn’t deny the grim possibility that it could very well happen. I cannot even begin to imagine the thoughts of someone that had been put through that experience and so it made Sumika’s position that much more poignant. Part of me wants to say that scene went too far but at the same time I recognize that it probably wouldn’t have been as powerful otherwise. I mean, just thinking about it now and trying to empathize makes my chest tighten.

[Lazarinth]
I was looking through the Alternative’s scenes and Hayley spotted that one. How do you think your girl would have reacted in that position? In a nutshell that’s my only real issue that scene. As for what I think about the ending… Takeru, “Meiya…” Meiya, “Shoot.” Takeru “Mei…ya…!” Meiya “Shoot!” Takeru Mei…ya…!” Meiya, “Just fucking shoot you whiny…!” BAM”

Question 4
What did you enjoy about it all up? (suspense, emotion, complex plot, length)

[Kai]
Aside from the chaotic mecha-alien war, I personally find Muv-luv a very personal and emotional story of a character trying to survive in an insane environment he wasn’t even originally from. Muv-luv tells a character-driven story, and a very, very extreme one at that. Never had there been a series I had come across that studied the human psyche and militaristic psychology of those in war as deep as what MLA had shown us. That aside, MLA is also extremely thrilling and suspenseful, constantly keeping you on the edge of your seat, excited at the next turn of events. As for the length, especially if we combined the length of Extra, Unlimited and Alternative, it is extremely long, and to me, the length is almost akin to playing three different visual novels. However, both Extra and Unlimited helps introduce and establish the characters, and by Alternative, as so much time had been spent with these characters, they very naturally just grow on you. It’s as though you’re entering the battlefield together with these characters and feeling the same emotions as they are feeling, be it tension or desperation during a fight with the BETA, or pain and regret when they lost a comrade. Also, all the build-up from Extra, Unlimited and even the first portion of Alternative makes the latter scenes that much more chaotic, befitting the desperate atmosphere. Sometimes, the plot moved so quick it’s very difficult to follow without a good grasp of Extra and Unlimited.

[Silvachief]
After Kai’s answer mine’s going to seem pretty shallow. Extra was not the best visual novel but I enjoyed it nonetheless. By having its own story and own sequence of events it manages to show us every aspect of the original world before turning upside down, something that most series can only devote a small amount of time to (or be like Higurashi, and shove it in your face at the start of every chapter). When Unlimited came along you were able to do the same thing as Takeru: wonder what the hell was going on and draw connections between the alternative and original worlds. It felt immersive to me because my thoughts constantly lined up with the protagonist’s, since i’d already been through Extra and was confronted with the same odd feeling of encountering familiar elements in an unfamiliar environment. When you get to Alternative you’re suddenly hit with wave after wave of high-stakes events. Because of the relatively slow pace of the first two installments you can’t help but get caught up with what’s going on. During the time I was playing Alternative all I really wanted to do was get back to my computer and find out what was going to happen next. Aside from one or two theory-heavy portions things were always on the go and that wasn’t just on the battlefield. I loved the challenge of bringing Sumika back to herself, and the feelings brought on by empathizing with Takeru during that time were intense. I mean, imagine this person that you love being reduced to an empty shell and gradually trying to bring them back to normal. The frustration at seeing them in that state, the elation brought on by every small improvement and then the crippling pain when, after they finally return to themselves, they reject you despite all of the effort you’ve put into their recovery and the feelings you hold for them. And then after all that, the anger at what they were forced to endure. I found all of that to be incredibly powerful. In short, I just enjoyed the ride. I cared about the characters and the challenges they were facing, I’m well and truly terrified of the BETA and i’m thankful for the number of different outlooks on life I was exposed to. Was it too long? For a normal visual novel it probably would have been. However, Muv-Luv Alternative hooked me deep even after having read 50 hours’ worth of Muv-Luv previously and it kept me interested for that length of time again. It built upon the base of those first installments and just kept building, with every new chapter raising the stakes. I can’t say I was ever bored during the experience.

[Lazarinth]
My favorite aspect of Alternative was the suspense of some of the scenes. It got to me as much as a thriller or ticking time bomb action film. Then again without any emotional connection to the characters I wouldn’t have cared enough to feel this suspense.

Further Discussion
If Kasumi knew that Sumika was trying to get with Takeru but each time he time looped he went with another girl, wouldn’t it have saved a lot of time and effort to simply have told him this when he met her?

[Kai]
I’m not sure how that would be as smooth sailing. It might even confuse Takeru more. Remember that Sumika herself wasn’t even that keen on wanting to be with Takeru, despite her feelings.

[Silvachief]
Erm…I would be grateful if you could elaborate on that question Lazarinth. As a presumptive answer, Kasumi’s personality was way underdeveloped so she only had Sumika’s memories to go by here and they were completely jumbled. And at the time that they met Kasumi probably knew that the Takeru Sumika had been close to was dead. I think a number of factors contributed to her not sharing anything with Takeru (remember, she’s shy, too!)

[Kai]
Indeed, there are just too many factors to consider. Also, if Kasumi knew from the get-go that Kasumi is the root cause behind Takeru being the causality conductor, the only way to “manually remove” Takeru’s status as the causality conductor, is to have Sumika dead… which I think you know where I’m going with this. In order to return to his own world, Takeru will have to kill her himself, and if Kasumi also knew about Sumika’s feelings for Takeru, and also Takeru’s for Sumika, she perhaps would be too hesitating to tell them, shy or not. Takeru and Sumika.. ahh, the tragedy.

[Lazarinth]
Good points. Plot hole plugged.

– – –
How did Sumika end up making Takeru into a Causality Conductor?

[Silvachief]
I think it’s been a bit too long since I played to explain that. Probably something to do with an isolated human mind connected to sophisticated machinery focusing on a single person for a long time. I don’t know, I just made that up. [Kai] I don’t think it was ever mentioned? At least “how” Sumika do that, lol. It’s one of the things I meant when I said “mysteries remained”. Although “why” Sumika did that is explained though.

[Lazarinth]
Hah, it does seem to be like one of those ‘just go with it’ moments.

– – –
I’ve read all this, agree with most of it but sorry guys (particularly S), call it personal taste or whatever, I still liked G-senjou no Maou and Steins;Gate better. Not saying this isn’t good, it’s epic and with its length it’s hard not to find at least some scenes that anyone would like but for me when it comes to atmosphere and characters G-senjou no Maou and Stein;Gate wins.On the other hand, it does definitely win in ‘attentiveness to detail’ and ‘exciting action’ for VN and for that it wins a tentative third place just on top of Dangan Ronpa and Sharin no Kuni.

[Kai]
I can’t really get a definite ranking out of my favorites. I always feel that in list, some titles differ too much to one another too much just to make a proper ranking. For some reason, visual novels is a medium where this issue is much more apparent than any other medium for me. However, Muv-luv will for sure be in my favorite list. As for G-Senjou no Maou, G-Senjou no Maou does indeed tells a great story, but as with my previous argument, the two are just too different to make a comparison. G-Senjou no Maou features a psychological battle of wits between characters and Muv-luv gets downright physical and brutal. Obviously, the themes in both series are just too different. I would argue and say Muv-luv has better characters than G-Senjou, both characters, especially Kyousuke in G-Senjou, and Takeru in Muv-luv are greatly written characters, but the emotions portrayed in Muv-luv feels more raw, emotional and powerful, which makes these wild emotions more recognizable, and more empathizable. Also, with the way the plot is structured and design, it just naturally pulled you in into the character’s perspective. Also, the scale of the struggles in which the characters experienced in both series is just too different. Although, Muv-luv obviously has the advantage when it comes to characterizations and developments with its greater length, so this is something a bit difficult to judge.And I also definitely agree that when it comes to “attention to detail”, Muv-luv wins hand down, but again, Muv-luv has the advantage in length.

[Silvachief]
I can definitely see where you’re coming from here, Lazarinth. G-Senjou no Maou especially is pulled off amazingly and the entire story is incredibly entertaining, whereas Muv-Luv’s introduction and side routes are rather weak. I personally loved the ride because I connected with the protagonist and main heroines, so I was always invested in what was going on. On the path from Extra to Alternative things just kept getting better, and then Alternative was a monster read that gripped me from the word go, so the series as a whole made me very happy. The attention to detail just sealed the deal. I guess if I were to set G-Senjou no Maou and Muv-Luv Alternative next to one another, it’s the difference in scale and what’s at stake that brings Muv-Luv Alternative out on top for me.

[Lazarinth]
Muv-Luv definitely wins on scale, I’ll give you that S. However, hold back on your character nostalgia until you’ve read Steins;Gate. What you said about mind games vs brutal and raw-ness got me thinking because you’re right but at the same time I just prefer mind games more so really it is all down to personal preference on this, but that’s what usually comes down to anyway.

– – –

Silvachief’s Questions

Question 1
What did you think of Takeru’s character development throughout the story?

[Silvachief]
I felt that Takeru’s cycle of “Oh no, I did something wrong, I’m a terrible person and I should just die” → “I’m going to be a better person, hell yeah!” rinse, repeat was just frustrating. He wasn’t developing so much as going through the same issues over and over again, which I found rather annoying.

[Kai]
Ahh, perhaps “develop” has a deeper connotation here especially in this case. Takeru was going through a cycle of character developments and “deconstructions.” Truthfully, I actually feel this aspect of his development is what makes me feel and connect to his struggles even more so than usual. You see, even when one “changes”, it’s not like he or she will just change and will just turn into a better person from then onwards. New experiences upon new experiences develop new views and perspectives on them, and if one of those experiences are negative ones, that very “change” might turn stagnant, diverged and “decharacterized” – “deconstructed”, if you will, and the visual novel implemented this very realistic element in their character developments. And it works. I think one of the major parts in the storylines where Takeru’s character got majorly “deconstructed” was just after Marimo’s death. Instead of being the brave, confident and decisive Takeru that he had become after Extra and Unlimited, his first encounter with the BETA, and his fear, paired up with Marimo’s death, built upon layers and layers of insecurities on Takeru, to the point that he just wants to get away from the battle. But when Takeru got a better hold of himself later on, you just get the feeling that Takeru had conquered his insecurities, and once again “re-develop” himself. In a sense, because of this “deconstruction” aspect, it makes the parts of the story when Takeru finally “re-developed” himself that much more powerful and emotional. It also feels as if we are growing together with Takeru – the harsh realities which we had never known, splashed upon us, yet, conquering the insecurities brought from these cold, hard realities, allowing them to become a part of us, shaping up as another new layer of characterizations upon Takeru. Now that when I think about it, with this “deconstruction” aspect, making the BETA appearing only in Alternative (and almost midway through) makes sense.

[Lazarinth]
Yes I did notice a bit of rinse and repeat in Muv-Luv in general and when a plot gets that large it starts to become a repeated formula. What I noticed was that after each giant change for him he seems determined to keep his resolve firm but then breaks down again after a while like in the beginning of Alternative and then again when he gets back from his own world. It’s generally called the try/fail cycle.

Question 2
What did you guys think of Muv-Luv’s portrayal of the USA? (Or rather, their relationship with Japan)

[Kai]
Not sure what to make of it, but in general, the Americans portrayed in Muv-luv feels tyrannical. The Americans and Japanese are allied together, but when BETA first invaded Japan, the first thing the Americans do is running away, abandoning the Japanese, and later on, the Americans just G-bombed the heck out of everything, including most of the Japanese lands. I also think US are the main supporters of Alternative V, which is a plan almost equivalent to “destroy the Earth so that you can destroy the BETA” Also, this page is hilarious. http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/AMERICA “And not a single fuck was given that day.” ← Golden xD [Lazarinth] You can generally expect some border line nationalist bigotry towards America (China as well) in almost any politically themed Jap media. I just finished playing the Metal Gear Solid series, holy shit they just bash America for all they have.

[Lazarinth]
You can expect some border line nationalist bigotry towards America (China as well) in almost any politically themed Jap media. I just finished playing the Metal Gear Solid series, holy shit they just bash America for all they have.

[Silvachief]
That entire article is gold! I think at this point it’s worth mentioning a conversation I had with someone on my blog about Major Walken, the American soldier in command during the 12/5 incident. There was a lot of anti-American sentiment but here we have an American character who seems to be pretty decent, in the end giving his life for the Japanese. I think it’s really cool that they took the time to recognize that the actions and feelings of a country, no matter how much one may not like that country, do not reflect the actions and feelings of the individual.

[Kai]
This is also another theme that intrigues me so in Muv-luv. General consensus of a country or the beliefs of the individuals.I think that also boils down to Meiya’s discussion on the significance of people to a country. One element why Meiya’s character fascinates me so much is that, under that prideful and honourable demeanour, there is an interesting juxtaposition in her diligence – whether or not to be merciless and fight as a soldier, or to fight for the Japanese people.

Part 1

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17 Responses to Webchat with Kai (Deluscar) & and Silvachief (The Geek Clinic) on the Muv-Luv Trilogy – Part 2

  1. Pingback: Kai’s Discussion with Silvachief and Lazarinth on the Many Wonders of Muv-luv | deluscar

  2. Pingback: [Announcement]: Muv-Luv Discussion with Lazarinth (Fantasy & Anime) & Kai (Deluscar) | The Geek Clinic

  3. Pingback: Web-chat with Bloggers Kai (Deluscar) & Silvachief (The Geek Clinic) on the Muv-Luv Trilogy – Part 1 | Fantasy and Anime

  4. Lambda says:

    To be honest, you don’t need any of the answer sections and they kinda feel like they’re not really summing up the discussion well. It’s quite interesting to read everyone’s thoughts on this trilogy. I’ll just put all my thoughts here instead of splitting them between the parts.

    Silvachief, the article on Muv Luv probably IS talking about the entire trilogy. I remember you saying that not meeting the BETA was a bad thing, but this is actually saying the opposite: you could feel like the world was at war without seeing any of their enemies based on character behaviour and the world around them. I have seen it articulated more than once.

    Captain’s Extra-like spin off story is actually an older game from Age much like Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Kimi ga Ita Kisetsu. She has a spin off about her past in Alternative Chronicles, though.

    I’m interested, then, in Kai’s opinion on Meiya’s death. I imagined it much like Lazarinth did, which wouldn’t imply that Takeru’s character got rebuilt at all. In fact, it appears that he’s coerced by the situation – and everyone yelling at him – to do that. Is there an aspect I’m missing here that doesn’t make Takeru Worst Girl?

    I also find it cool that one story can be enjoyed for such different reasons: Kai appears to be taking an analytical approach, Silvachief connected with the emotions, while Lazarinth simply enjoyed it as a good story. I myself primarily enjoyed its portrayal of soldiers and war life (including troubles involving returning home), and its giving equal weight to the personal as well as the idealistic reasons to fight, and to empathy vs pragmatism for a soldier.

    Lazarinth, I feel your pain with the new characters. I never really felt for their deaths, because it sounded obvious when they’d die. And I played the game through the better part of a month.

    I love that America article. Especially the line “the Americans for the most part are decent people who’re trying to do the right thing while being ruthlessly pragmatic about safeguarding their interests; it’s just that things rarely tend to go as well as they’d hope or like, generally to the detriment of those around them.” It’s probably best to be reminded a lot of the America hate past Chapter 6 comes from Takeru, who just happens to be our protagonist here, so the American hate gets pretty heavy. And yes, Major Walken is officially Best Girl (Lt. Hayase is Best Actual Girl, okay?).

    • Lazarinth says:

      This thing is quite long right? I tried keeping my answers to a paragraph but I didn’t want to cut out any of the points they were making.

      • Lambda says:

        Yeah, it’s really long (you can tell based on my reply’s size alone!), but the answer sections were all so succinct they just didn’t end up making sense, or rather created a sense of disconnect, with the content before it (where the bloggers actually responded). Especially since some of the answers =/= the point one of the bloggers was making, but rather majority opinion. A lot of these responses don’t really have a clear aggregate opinion.

    • Silvachief says:

      I can see where people are coming from saying that that was a good point rather than a bad one (not that I agree), but the concept of that making Unlimited the better experience completely boggles my mind >.< I personally found Alternative to be leaps an bounds better, so I hadn't even considered that they meant Unlimited was better because of that. Each to their own, though. I can't really argue with someone's opinion now, can I?

      I also found it interesting that, on top of us all enjoying the visual novel, we enjoyed it for different reasons. I think my opinions had been heavily influenced by our previous conversations though =P

      It's official. Major Walken Best Girl, Takeru Worst Girl. [/life]

      • Lazarinth says:

        I forgot to ask; what twist in Muv-Luv (if any) ‘got you’ the best?

      • Silvachief says:

        I think that one’s gonna be the same for most people XD I’m sure you can guess.

      • Lambda says:

        We can honestly admit it now: the bento we want to eat the most is Maj. Walken’s.

        Yeah, I can’t seem to agree on either point, however it’s interesting that people can have such an opinion. I didn’t even consider it, either, but it actually does make you believe it’s a war. When the siren goes for the first time, everything turns tense, even if nothing happens, and continually keeps you on your toes wondering if the siren is going to go off again, much like MLA post-chapter 7.

        I could tell in your points about Meiya’s animation and your questions specifically representing points we talked about~ Although your sentiments about it being a ‘high stakes’ game is interesting to think about. Fighting for and having a noticeable affect on the world, instead of just for your friends is something unusual, even in the war genre when it comes to anime. There isn’t a lot of anime that talk about it, especially at any length (Attack on Titan, I guess, but that’s a rather direct copy in its premise). Although most people’s perception of the world is based on their friends. And very few other stories have a cast full of characters where you fully believe they’d die without hesitation if necessary while still being inexperienced cadets who get afraid when seeing their enemy. This is a good point~ I have to wonder if it helps connect with the characters when they have smaller stakes they personally fight for, then, if that’s what’s common. Is Takeru more sympathetic because he fights to protect Sumika or because he fights to repair all the worlds he destroyed?

        (Marimo’s death got me the best, no question about it)

      • Silvachief says:

        As much as i’d like to think that any type of story will get points from me if it’s done well, big stakes make it easier, I think. Justified epic scale (as opposed to, say, Rewrite’s epic scale) is something that I absolutely love (which applied to AoT, too >.>). I’ve said multiple times before that I enjoy stories when they make me feel extreme emotion and there’s nothing quite like that adrenaline-pumping, heart-pounding feeling you get in situations where the protagonist and co have far more to lose than just their own lives.

        Your point about feeling more connected to characters when they’re dealing with smaller scale stuff makes sense. It’s the difference between event-driven stories and character-driven stories (there are also theme-driven stories, but i’m generally not a huge fan of those). For instance, I feel much closer to Ryuuji from Toradora than Takeru from Muv-Luv. Of course that’s confounded by the characters’ personalities but I think the stakes involved play a part.

    • Kai says:

      I’m afraid aside from what I had already mentioned in the posts, anything I say is probably going to be a copy/paste, lol. But do any of you ever feel connected with Takeru’s growth as a character, or just feels frustrated with the try/fail cycles? I admit, I do feel frustrated at times, but after I had finished the VN and review everything I had read, I feel more of the former than of the latter.

      Also guys, I think we forgot to comment (or make fun of xD) Muv-luv’s Engrish scenes.

      • Lazarinth says:

        Lol yes, there was indeed much de Engrish, though for me it made me laugh instead of get bothered by it. I also regret not asking the question: what twist in Muv-Luv (if any) ‘got you’ the best?

        The try/fail cycle is common in many stories, repeating more in longer ones, but I didn’t mind. Having highs and lows in a story makes it less boring for me.

      • Kai says:

        Yea, those Engrish scenes sound funny sometimes, despite the seriousness. About the twist, “that” scene.

      • Lambda says:

        I felt connected with Takeru when he was at his lowest point, which either says something about me or him. The first few times he snapped between “I can do this! I can do anything!” and “I can’t do anything! I haven’t grown at allllll!” was fine with me and I could completely understand, but it was abused to the point where he was idly wondering such things in the time-sensitive final battle. One would think his resolve would’ve hardened a little bit more before then, right? Because even mine did, as I was screaming at him to shoot. But it just felt like Chapter 7 again. Especially considering te time spent trying to give Takeru resolve and reasons to fight, there just felt like very little payoff.The difference is how much growth characters claim he had, really.

        I have no idea why you’d make fun of Muv Luv’s beautifully rendered English dialogue with no awkward points or pronunciations at all.

      • Kai says:

        Won’t it feels weird though, if Takeru mercilessly, and very cold-heartily shoots through Meiya the first chance he gets without a single hint of hesitation? While Takeru did find his reasons to fight – both ambitious and personal reasons too, if I’m not mistaken, but I personally see he’s not the type to make sacrifices to reach his goals, despite the squad’s motto. He squabbled a lot with his seniors after knowing they are about to sacrifice themselves. There’s also the fact that at that time, he himself is the one pulling the trigger to make that very sacrifice, unlike the rest of the squad who initiated the sacrifces themselves, so it does feels a bit different. Additionally there’s also the fact that he’s much more closer to Meiya (aside from Sumika) than the rest. At the end of the day though, I think he understood the importance of their sacrifices. Honestly though, at my side here, I really don’t see any issues character-wise, lol. The hesitations of Takeru, including even Meiya’s sacrifice feels real and human.

      • Silvachief says:

        Aw man…dat Engrish. The translation notes warned me that Age and English just don’t mix but I was in no way prepared for…whatever that was.

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